Comments on: Canvas to replace Flash? Not likely. http://www.rtraction.com/blog/devit/canvas-to-replace-flash-not-likely.html rtraction blog - Web Design, Web Development and Strategic Consulting Fri, 02 Dec 2011 15:59:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Jeremy http://www.rtraction.com/blog/devit/canvas-to-replace-flash-not-likely.html/comment-page-1#comment-22802 Jeremy Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:31:16 +0000 http://www.rtraction.com/blog/?p=168#comment-22802 SeanJA: Of the two though, Flash is bar far more standardized. Just the javascript issues you run into alone with the difference between Firefox and IE are amazing. Then of course you have different versions of each browser, as well as a number of other browsers that have enough market share to notice (Chrome, Safari, Opera). So when talking about it that way I have to say the Flash/Flex platform is far more standardized. I'm wondering if one of the reasons this topic gets people so riled up is that Flash is a proprietary technology? People don't just want a standardized platform - they want a standardized OPEN platform. Of course there are positives and negatives to both - perhaps the topic for another blog... SeanJA: Of the two though, Flash is bar far more standardized. Just the javascript issues you run into alone with the difference between Firefox and IE are amazing. Then of course you have different versions of each browser, as well as a number of other browsers that have enough market share to notice (Chrome, Safari, Opera). So when talking about it that way I have to say the Flash/Flex platform is far more standardized.

I’m wondering if one of the reasons this topic gets people so riled up is that Flash is a proprietary technology? People don’t just want a standardized platform – they want a standardized OPEN platform. Of course there are positives and negatives to both – perhaps the topic for another blog…

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.rtraction.com/blog/devit/canvas-to-replace-flash-not-likely.html/comment-page-1#comment-22801 Jeremy Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:27:20 +0000 http://www.rtraction.com/blog/?p=168#comment-22801 Max: I agree with you for sure. I maybe shouldn't have focused on the performance based issues as technology is constantly evolving and you are right that differences are fairly minor at this point. You bring up a good point though about the perception which I think is what gets people upset about Flash. There are a lot of heavy download Flash sites out their that don't mask the work they are doing. Therefore as far as perception, it always seems the Flash is the slower of the two (between Flash and Javascript). Maybe I should do a more "feature to feature" comparison of what Flash offers compared to Canvas/Javascript solutions. As I'm learning more about Canvas it seems to me as though this comparison is almost apples & oranges. There is definitely feature overlap but they are really different beasts which I believe can co-exists. Max: I agree with you for sure. I maybe shouldn’t have focused on the performance based issues as technology is constantly evolving and you are right that differences are fairly minor at this point.

You bring up a good point though about the perception which I think is what gets people upset about Flash. There are a lot of heavy download Flash sites out their that don’t mask the work they are doing. Therefore as far as perception, it always seems the Flash is the slower of the two (between Flash and Javascript).

Maybe I should do a more “feature to feature” comparison of what Flash offers compared to Canvas/Javascript solutions. As I’m learning more about Canvas it seems to me as though this comparison is almost apples & oranges. There is definitely feature overlap but they are really different beasts which I believe can co-exists.

]]> By: Max http://www.rtraction.com/blog/devit/canvas-to-replace-flash-not-likely.html/comment-page-1#comment-22728 Max Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:40:54 +0000 http://www.rtraction.com/blog/?p=168#comment-22728 Jeremy: It doesn't cost much to parse Javascript, and Flash is far more guilty of clogging up a browser while loading. But it doesn't really matter anyway as long as the loading time is imperceptible, nobody cares. Runtime speed is the real concern, and where Flash still has a clear advantage over most Javascript implementations. Bob: This will not change very quickly. It's easy to not notice the major advancements Flash makes in new versions that keep it a few years ahead of everyone else, but this combined with an always slow rate of adoption among browsers (and users) keeps things this way. Now I'm not saying it won't change, but it will not do so quickly. SeanJA: I currently use Linux and I can state that it does work on all platforms with far more reliability than the multitude of browsers out there. Even if Firefox is more stable on Linux than Flash, IE does not come with canvas support last time I checked. Jeremy: It doesn’t cost much to parse Javascript, and Flash is far more guilty of clogging up a browser while loading. But it doesn’t really matter anyway as long as the loading time is imperceptible, nobody cares. Runtime speed is the real concern, and where Flash still has a clear advantage over most Javascript implementations.

Bob: This will not change very quickly. It’s easy to not notice the major advancements Flash makes in new versions that keep it a few years ahead of everyone else, but this combined with an always slow rate of adoption among browsers (and users) keeps things this way. Now I’m not saying it won’t change, but it will not do so quickly.

SeanJA: I currently use Linux and I can state that it does work on all platforms with far more reliability than the multitude of browsers out there. Even if Firefox is more stable on Linux than Flash, IE does not come with canvas support last time I checked.

]]> By: SeanJA http://www.rtraction.com/blog/devit/canvas-to-replace-flash-not-likely.html/comment-page-1#comment-22722 SeanJA Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:36:29 +0000 http://www.rtraction.com/blog/?p=168#comment-22722 Now a days we’re talking about a full, standardized application platform. @Jeremy It would be nice if that standardized platform actually worked on all platforms though... wouldn't it? Now a days we’re talking about a full, standardized application platform.

@Jeremy

It would be nice if that standardized platform actually worked on all platforms though… wouldn’t it?

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.rtraction.com/blog/devit/canvas-to-replace-flash-not-likely.html/comment-page-1#comment-22465 Jeremy Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:00:57 +0000 http://www.rtraction.com/blog/?p=168#comment-22465 Yes but that is just my point. When is that compile going to happen? It's going to happen on the client side when they download the web page. Compiling the code may make it faster once that is done but there is that up front cost. With flash, the file is compiled when authored, before the client ever sees the file. Yes but that is just my point. When is that compile going to happen? It’s going to happen on the client side when they download the web page. Compiling the code may make it faster once that is done but there is that up front cost. With flash, the file is compiled when authored, before the client ever sees the file.

]]> By: Jeremy http://www.rtraction.com/blog/devit/canvas-to-replace-flash-not-likely.html/comment-page-1#comment-22464 Jeremy Wed, 18 Mar 2009 14:58:57 +0000 http://www.rtraction.com/blog/?p=168#comment-22464 You make a good point that performance may not be such an issue in the near future. Perhaps I should have focused on the fact that we're really comparing apples and oranges. If we're talking about canvas replacing Flash for things such as animations, font rendering and basic vector graphics then I can see where it may take some of the market. However that is only looking at very limited capabilities of Flash. For Flash to be replace you must look at the entire spectrum of what it covers. Now a days we're talking about a full, standardized application platform. Flash is not just for animations anymore but includes the whole Flex platform with Actionscript 3 at the core. It seems all of the proponents of canvas replacing flash don't seem to understand the depth of the platform. If you're talking about a simple program for doing splash page intros then I would agree, but that is missing the larger picture of the Flash/Flex/AS3 platform. You make a good point that performance may not be such an issue in the near future. Perhaps I should have focused on the fact that we’re really comparing apples and oranges. If we’re talking about canvas replacing Flash for things such as animations, font rendering and basic vector graphics then I can see where it may take some of the market. However that is only looking at very limited capabilities of Flash.

For Flash to be replace you must look at the entire spectrum of what it covers. Now a days we’re talking about a full, standardized application platform. Flash is not just for animations anymore but includes the whole Flex platform with Actionscript 3 at the core.

It seems all of the proponents of canvas replacing flash don’t seem to understand the depth of the platform. If you’re talking about a simple program for doing splash page intros then I would agree, but that is missing the larger picture of the Flash/Flex/AS3 platform.

]]> By: Bob http://www.rtraction.com/blog/devit/canvas-to-replace-flash-not-likely.html/comment-page-1#comment-22460 Bob Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:30:13 +0000 http://www.rtraction.com/blog/?p=168#comment-22460 A SWF is compiled bytecode which isn't that much faster than interpreted JavaScript. The latest browsers have started to use similar techniques to make JavaScript about as fast anyway. The real reason canvas isn't ready to replace Flash is that Flash has video and audio support built right in, a great editor for coding, drawing and animating, good fast embedded font rendering and allot of libraries and support as a result of being around for so long. Flash is also far more reliable across browsers at the moment and has a better rendering engine. All this is going to change very quickly. A SWF is compiled bytecode which isn’t that much faster than interpreted JavaScript. The latest browsers have started to use similar techniques to make JavaScript about as fast anyway.

The real reason canvas isn’t ready to replace Flash is that Flash has video and audio support built right in, a great editor for coding, drawing and animating, good fast embedded font rendering and allot of libraries and support as a result of being around for so long. Flash is also far more reliable across browsers at the moment and has a better rendering engine. All this is going to change very quickly.

]]> By: Jake http://www.rtraction.com/blog/devit/canvas-to-replace-flash-not-likely.html/comment-page-1#comment-22452 Jake Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:18:39 +0000 http://www.rtraction.com/blog/?p=168#comment-22452 Not quite. While the browser retrieves javascript code in its plaintext form, there is nothing to prevent it from compiling it before running it. In fact, most performant browsers do just that. Not quite. While the browser retrieves javascript code in its plaintext form, there is nothing to prevent it from compiling it before running it. In fact, most performant browsers do just that.

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